Saturday, January 5, 2008

My Take on Horse Tripping

Often I feel like I've gotten to an age where I've seen and heard just about everything to do with horses. Not much surprises me. But the so-called "sport" of horse tripping still does. I happen to live in an area of Southern California that's home to a lot of horses. And, like much of Southern California, there are quite a few people with ties to the Mexican community. Both of those statistics are all well and good, however, when they converge together what sometimes results is a clash of cultures. That's how I first discovered horse tripping. A couple of years ago there was a small, impromptu sort of Mexican rodeo-- and I use that term loosely-- held at a dusty regional park on the fringe of my county. What brought the event to my attention was that the sheriff busted the gathering for including horse tripping in its events. What stuck with me was a comment from one of the spectators that they didn't understand all the hoopla because the horses used in the tripping contests were on their way to the slaughterhouse, anyway.

Well, but fortunately horse tripping has been illegal in California for several years.

Phoenix, Arizona, is currently wrangling with the issue of horse tripping. You can read about one city official's attempt to ban it on Horse Channel by clicking here:

An Attempt to Put the Drop on Horse Tripping

If you're like me you probably cannot fathom what the heck motivates someone of any cultural or ethnic background to perceive horse tripping as a "sport," especially not one worthy of a human being in today's (allegedly) enlightened society. However, if you'd like to get some background on horse tripping, I suggest starting here:

A Look at Horse Tripping

It might not make you feel any better about what can happen in a Mexican charreada, but you'll be better informed.

Please feel free to add your comments about horse tripping to the Horse Channel article. Or you can comment here by clicking on "comments" below.

41 comments:

Anonymous said...

Cindy, thanks for the information about "tripping." I'll see if we can get it banned in Tennessee. I have a question for you, my email is reg@imacx.com, send me a note. Thanks, Travis

Anonymous said...

I don't understand how people can find that "sport" entertaining. I think it is sick and it needs to be banned in all States.

DeeDee said...

It's totally wrong, just like Mexican slaughter houses. Would those people just step back and see what they're doing!!??

Tempe Tom said...

I don't understand what the big deal is to be honest. I've seen it happen, and its a sport. I've actually heard that the horses actually seem to enjoy it as it is a challenge for them.

Randy Janssen said...

There is a portion of a charreada which PETA likes to call horse tripping. The opponents of mangana express outrage at the fact that a horse caught by its front legs. The fact is, catching a horse by its front legs is not cruelty. It is a time tried method of controlling what can be a very dangerous animal while using the minimum force necessary.
The charro has four hundred years of experience in handling large stock. This includes horses. In that time they have determined the best way to catch a running horse is by the front lags. This is because of the physical makeup of the horse. Unlike a steer, the horse your roping will be running faster then the horse that is being ridden. This is because the rider weights down his horse. Therefore the horse your trying to rope will be accelerating away from you. That makes roping a horse around its neck while it is at a gallop dangerous to both the roper and the animal. Simply put, if you try to rope a running horse while on foot, you will either have the rope pulled from your hand or you will end up on your face. If you try to rope a running horse around the neck while your on horseback, your either have the rope pulled from your hand, have you or you and your horse pulled over if you can get the rope around your saddle horn or if you do get the rope around your saddle horn and if you can get your horse set, then the horse you rope will fall back just like a calf in a calf roping. I’ve only seen a running horse roped around its neck and stopped once and there was two riders , one of whom was pulled sideways on his horse . That horse that was caught reared up and almost fell over backswords.
Even Eric Mills has said that roping a horse’s front legs is an appropriate way to stop a horse under certain circumstances. Specifically, when you have a dangerous animal lose and you need to stop it. If roping the front legs of a horse is a reasonable way to stop a horse, how do you teach people to do it. Eric Mills says you should not do it by sport. But that is the way its been done for 400 years. The older generation teaching the younger in the arena. This is how mangana evolved.
There are apparently some videos showing skinny malnourished horse being knocked down. This is a problem. The problem is not mangana though, its generally the lack of funds to purchase or rent adequate animals. If you go to Mexico and watch the strong well fed animals down there, you will see horses being knocked down, and then getting up and trotting away.
There is also a PETA video, which they say stopped mangana in Illinois. The problem is, its has been cropped to only show the horse being brought down. What they don’t show you is what happed to the horse afterwards. Since they don’t do that, I can only assume that the horse got up and trotted away as I’ve seen over three hundred times.
I’m not trying to say that mangana is gentle. Then most rodeo events aren’t. It’s not cruel though. It’s a reasonable way to stop an animal that can do serious injury to people.
Thank you for your consideration. I remain;

Randy Janssen

Anonymous said...

From the same folks that brought us bullfighting............

Anonymous said...

This is repulsive. Anyone who would do this to God's living creatures will surely spend eternity in Hell. And the sooner the better.

Crunchberry's mom said...

Randy Janssen said, "The charro has four hundred years of experience in handling large stock."

show me a 400 year old charro, idiot... abuse is abuse, no matter how you try to whitewash it.

Randy Janssen said...

It has been a while since I’ve had the pleasure of the obscene and racist dribble on my web site horsetrippng.com. I can only conclude that either you ran out of profanity or you finally realize that mangana is no more dangerous then jumping, thoroughbred racing and polo and that it is safer to horses then steeple chase and cross country. It is probably the latter, since no one has provided any evidence that mangana is more dangerous to horses then other equestrian events. Since a number of you profess to be such profound horse advocates; I will point out that the National Steeplechase Association still has a number of events listed for 2008. Because of the repeated references to Ghandi and Cesar Chavez, I believe that many of you are committed to their principles. I therefor challenge you to have the courage of your convictions. If you honestly think that anyone who places a horse in danger should be stopped, then I think you will be more then willing to commit acts of civil disobedience to stop the barbaric practice of Steeplechase. The PETA people should glad to man the barricades to stop this carnage.
Randy Janssen

Anonymous said...

Randy Janssen is nothing but a retarded human being.

He can't help what he is.

Anonymous said...

Randy Jansen, so many things are absolutely FALSE about your statements.

first of all, a horse by nature will avoid confrontation and challenge at all cost. Notice the horse runs AWAY from the rope, doesn't turn around attack and never will in this sitaution. They are flight animals, not fight. Maybe "the charro has four hundred years of experience," but these individual rodeos and people obviously do not. The ropers are generally young guys with equivalent experience and nothing to lose. The best way to catch a running horse is 100% NOT TO TOUCH THE LEGS, and that is precisely because of the physical makeup of the horse. What you are saying about this is wrong. A horse can survive serious neck injuries, they can even survive being shot in the neck yet many horses are euthanized because of irreparable leg injuries as slight as twisted ankles. As to your view of steeplechase, these horses are cared for much better than rodeo horses. Think about it logically: steeplechasing requires an immense amount of time, money, and training and the many people counting on a competing horse will do anything to make sure the horse is in full health and expertly handled. These tripped horses? Not at all. No one cares about their well-being, otherwise they wouldn't take pleasure in abusing them and later killing them. Horse tripping is a sorry excuse a for a sport, steeplechase actually takes skill and talent.

Anonymous said...

I just found out about this today and I am outraged. I want to take every single one of those charros and force them into a dead run and lasso their legs out from under them and see if they think that's the best way to stop horse tripping!

Anonymous said...

I find the lack of truthfulness to you statement offensive, you have never attended any event in claifornia, a few years back, where it was shut down because of horse tripping, the charro community has ceased dropping mares in the forefooting event for over 15 years now, across the united states. get your facts straight, i want to see or hear first hand accounts of how we "abuse" horses. i am tired of hearing ignorant people who claim to be representing the benefit of the horses conjure such false claims as to have witnessed or have seen, or heard. show me proof, i want to see numbers, vet reports, police reports... dont take advantage of the charros reluctance to proclaim your claims as false. give me a brake...

Randy Janssen said...

I’ll offer you the charro challenge. I made it to Eric Mills and something called SHARK or Showing Animals Respect and Kindness. They have refused to accept. For four hundred years charros have been practicing mangana and they have not caused repeated serious injuries to animals. Then arrogant Anglos condemn mangana based on their gut feeling that it is wrong, with no empirical evidence to support their condemnation. Now, Charros have proposed a scientific study to find out the truth about mangana. We will put up half the cost; are you willing to do the same? In short, put your money where your mouth is. If not, then take this web page down.
Randy Janssen

Anonymous said...

Randy Janssen,
That spells SARK, stupid

legalizehorsetripping.com said...

watch this video
Also it is shark
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ke5frHR1pc

Anonymous said...

That video didn't prove any point. Are you trying to say animals don't feel? When in the slaughter house, do they feel no pain? So maybe a gazelle will eat grass after their baby is killed, but what do you expect, for them to have a wake? They are ANIMALS and there is no way for them to even do that. Even if the Horse Tripping did not hurt them, they will end up in the slaughterhouse.

Randy said...

The anti-slaughterhouse movement mystifies me. What do you do with horses that do not make the cut. They are lame or blind. They just are not good enough to work. What do you do with horses when there is not enough food to feed them. The slaughterhouse is a lot better way to die then starvation. You probably are using or own something that has a horse product in it. If you own house pets, you absolutely have used something made from horse. The French and most Asians consider horse meat a delicacy. Just another form of protein. The point of the video is that mangana or what you call horse tripping is no more dangerous to horses then most equine events and it is less dangerous to them then some, like Steeplechase and Cross Country. Therefore it should not be banned.

Anonymous said...

Instead of cruelly killing the horse in the slaughterhouse, wouldn't it be a lot nicer to put them to sleep? Also, I have a dog and cat. Their food contains no horse in it. I there was, it would say Animal by product in the ingredients. Horse meat is illegal in the US. That may not stop some people, but I use all natural dog and cat food. I know it may seem like Horse Tripping may be just as safe as other horse sports, the horses in those sports are usually well cared for. The Horse Tripping horses are used in mangana and then they are off to the slaughterhouse. I am not going to argue with you because I know I can not change your mind but you should try to be more open minded and consider for once that maybe this might hurt this horse. I own two horses and though they may be huge, horses are extremely delicate.

Anonymous said...

I looked on your website and it makes a few good points. If you want to do Horse Tripping when a crazy stallion is going towards children, I have NO problem with that. I just believe it is wrong to do that for a sport. And just because I believe horse tripping is wrong does not mean I am a racist. I dont care what color you are, of you are cruel to animals I am not going to like you.

Randy said...

Two questions for Anonymous. 1. Why is mangana, cruel when very, very, very few horse are seriously injured when they are used in mangana? 2. What do you think about Steeplechase and Cross Country?

Anonymous said...

1. Mangana is pointless unless there is some crazy runaway horse. Even if very few are injured (which I suspect is incorrect) those few injuries could have been prevented. If you cared at all for animals, you would realize that.
2. Steeplechase and Cross country are completly different than horse tripping. First of all, I dont participate in them. Also, the horses aren't purposfully thrown to their feet, they are jumped over jumps. Horses in those sports are usually well cared for. That is very ignorant to compare Horse Tripping to Steeplechase and Cross Country.

Randy said...

To Anonymous: Would you please explain the purpose of having up to 20 horses race around a track taking jumps along the way, when you know that between 25 to 50 percent will fall and be battered when it is landed on by other competing horses. What is the purpose of forcing a horse to jump solid barriers where it will do a 180 degree flip if it misses. As to how many horses are seriously injured in mangana, the Charros are so confident of the small numbers, that they have made the Charro Challenge. To do a scientific study to find out the truth. It is the Animal Rights people who do not accept.

Randy said...

to Anonymous: Watch this video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCCA8nB96KU

Anonymous said...

Please stop trying to make me think Steeplechase is bad!!! I never once said I love to steeplechase and I still believe it is safer that mangana! I dont care what you say because you will not change my mind. Stop acting so desperate to make people think mangana is good. Get a life and do something worthwhile. All you are doing is angering other people who will be less likely to give this a chance. I know that no matter what I say it wont change you and keep you from watching or doing this crap.

Randy said...

To Anonymous:
Watch this Video
Tohttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2v7djtzbckE
Cowboys do it too. It is a properr way to catch large dangerous animals

Anonymous said...

I don't care what color you are!!! It still doesnt make it any better for a cowboy to do it! Those are not large dangerous animals! They are COLTS that were put in that arena to trip. Roping by the neck is obviously dangerous. At a barn close to me there was a horse roped by the neck. It broke the horses neck and had to be put down. If you knew anything about horses you would realize that.

Randy said...

To Anonymous: Now you know why you rope horses by the legs. If you rope it around the neck, you can kill it. If roping by the legs is acceptable and in some cases necessary, then how do you maintain the knowledge. The Charros have done this for 400 years in charreadas. They do it full well knowing the dangers to both the Charro and the animal. Of course there is risk involved, but there are risk involved in every sporting event, be it High School football, where children are killed every year or steeplechase. The question is, are the risk acceptable. The Charros believe they are, and are willing to prove it by a scientific study of mangana. That is because very, very, very few animals are seriously injured in mangana.

Anonymous said...

If you can give me proof that very few horses are injured I will believe you. High school football players choose to take that risk while horses are forced to. Show me a 400 year old Charro. Go get a life and stop trying to force this onto people.

Randy said...

To Anonymous: What proof do you want, I have 240 videos of mangana on my web page where the horses get up and trot away. I have seen over 300 take downs where the horses get up and trot away. I have seen one horse seriouly injured in mangana and have heard of another. That is less then 1%. In the Omak Suicide Race 18 horses have been killed in the last 15 years. In steeplechase at least 25%of the horses do not finish. By the way none of the horses choose to be in any of these races. That is because animals do not get to choose.

Courtney said...

Randy, besides your misguided ramblings on the virtues of horse tripping, I'm really annoyed by your use of the word "then" when you actually mean "than." PLEASE, for God's sake, use the correct word! Who knows. It just might make you and your argument seem more intelligent.

Then again, it probably won't.

Randy said...

It seems that the best the anti-mangana and animal rights people can do is criticize my grammar and spelling. Where is you proof of the dangers of mangana. Post it here, link it here. I have not rambled, I have posted and linked video tape proof of the how mangana is safe. In all of the videos, the horses get up and trot away. The fact is, very, very, very, few animals are seriously injured in mangana. I understand your frustration when all you have is rhetoric.

Anonymous said...

It doesn't matter if the horse gets up and trots away!!!! They can still be injured!!! Videos are very blurry! I need to see pictures to believe you and also vet records and then I would believe you! Get a life and stop wasting your time asshole

Taylor said...

Some of these horses were used for tripping
http://www.shilohacres.org/page10.html

Randy said...

Looked at the shilohacres web page, did not see any proof of the dangers of mangana. The fact is, very, very, very few horses are hurt in mangana. If you think you have proof otherwise, post it here.

Angela said...

Randy: 1. This is not your blog- save the soap box preaching for your own website. 2. Please use question marks when asking even hypothetical questions. 3. Watch the slaughterhouse comments. I have a young gelding that happens to be almost completely blind. He's very talented and has a lot of potential to do more. I do gymkhana with him. If a crazy young horse can trust a teenager enough to run full speed ahead in the dark, every other horse tagged as "useless" because they're not perfect should have a second chance, too. 4. You are a good debater, but you're very repetative. You are succeeding in making the same points over and over again in a calm fashion that does nothing but anger everyone else and cause them to have a burning hatred of you. You will never succeed in changing anyone's opinion. Sorry, but here you're outnumbered. Go fight elsewhere.

Randy Janssen said...

If you have proof of the dangers of mangana, post it here.

Randy Janssen said...

Watch this video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_pKdfdkiIo

paul said...

Randy Janssen is God's gift to animal lovers everywhere. May I suggest that everyone on this blog forward the YouTube video (narrated by Mr. Janssen, and mentioned in his most recent post) to every pro-animal legislator across the country and in Washington. His stupid video and the accompanying dialogue (which I'm betting he wrote) should help to stop this cruelty nationwide. Nine states have now banned this cruelty: California (the first, in 1994), New Mexico, Texas, Oklahoma, Illinois, Maine, Florida, Nebraska (2008) and Arizona (2009). Nebraska, to its credit, also banned the charreada's equally "steer tailing" event ("colas"). The steer's horns, tail and back may be broken, and horses sometimes break their legs when the steers run the wrong way. Both should be banned. Neither is sanctioned by any rodeo association, and neither is a standard ranching practice anywhere in the U.S. These events follow the Mexican migrant workers, and are not occurring in Tennessee, Georgia, Arkansas, the Carolinas, and probably elsewhere. We should be passing bans BEFORE this cruelty becomes established in any/all states.

Cheers,
Eric Mills, coordinator
ACTION FOR ANIMALS
Oakland
afa@mcn.org

Randy Janssen said...

To Paul and Eric: If you have proof of horses being seriously injured in mangana, post it here. If you don't I guess we can assume you have none and are nothing but mouth.

Anonymous said...

Watch this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ZyKv-bhhtA
Randy Janssen